Speaker1: [00:00:05] Welcome to Rome, Dr. Malone. Thank you. It’s such a privilege and a pleasure to meet you and to be interviewing you for church. Militant Church Militant has been reporting extensively on the COVID 19 vaccines. And I can think of no better person to interview this morning than the father, if I may call you that the inventor of the RNA and DNA vaccine technology. Thank you. Now you are internationally recognized as a scientist with expertise in the fields of immunology, virology and molecular biology. You have over 100 articles in peer reviewed scientific journals, very prestigious journals, and you’ve been cited over 13000 times. And yet you have provoked monumental controversy by becoming a knight in shining armor for conscientious objectors all over the world who are battling with the tyranny of the COVID 19 vaccines. So Dr. Malone, who are you a hero or villain?
Speaker2: [00:01:26] So I’m overwhelmed by your introduction. Thank you, and thanks for the opportunity to be here and to to share my thoughts with you and with with church militant. It’s a pleasure and an honor, and also a great pleasure to be here in Rome. This is my first time in Rome and I’ve just been warmly embraced by the community. It’s it’s it’s been an amazing experience. So who am I? I’m a physician and scientist. I’m licensed in the state of Maryland to practice medicine, but I primarily focus on solving complicated problems, particularly in the areas of biodefense and outbreaks infectious disease outbreaks. I am a vaccinologist for 30 years. I did have these discoveries findings when I was very young in between nineteen eighty seven and nineteen eighty nine that gave rise to a series of patents that issued and have become the foundation for the the technology platforms that
Speaker3: [00:02:41] Are used in these
Speaker2: [00:02:42] Current mRNA vaccines, which has certainly brought the attention of the world onto this technology in a way that it never has before because of the nature of the threat and all the fear associated with this disease.
Speaker3: [00:02:59] I was catapulted into
Speaker2: [00:03:02] This for me, very unusual situation of of international attention and serving as a spokesman. Partially because of my background in as a as a virologist and vaccinologist and contributor to the technology,
Speaker3: [00:03:23] But also
Speaker2: [00:03:24] Because of a chain of events that happened where I took a strong position relating to the bioethics of what I saw happening, and I objected quite a bit to to what was being done as inconsistent with what I’d been trained, how I’d been trained and taught for years and years and years as a clinical development specialist.
Speaker3: [00:03:53] And so as somebody who’s involved
Speaker2: [00:03:56] In clinical research, we have to go through rigorous training and periodic refreshment concerning fundamentals of bioethics and medical products. And what I saw happening, particularly in Canada at the time, was a series of governmental policy decisions that I thought violated fundamental precepts of medical ethics as I’ve been taught and as the West has
Speaker3: [00:04:25] Agreed in a consensus
Speaker2: [00:04:28] Going back to the Nuremberg Trials Helsinki Accords and in the United States, the Belmont report that analyzed these things and responded in part to the transgressions that happened in the American African-American community with the Tuskegee experiments that were performed essentially by CDC. Hmm.
Speaker3: [00:04:49] And so these things were captured in
Speaker2: [00:04:53] Federal law in the United States in what we call the common rule. And my sense was that many of the precepts the common rule of being violated. This was all catalyzed by a long phone call I had with a practicing Canadian physician who’s actually here at the conference. So we’re here for the International Carbon Summit, which is why I have traveled to Rome, and IRA Bernstein, a a prominent Canadian family practice practitioner who’s treated thousands of patients but also had many, many patients vaccinated, had been on a phone call with me until a midnight one Saturday evening and and
Speaker3: [00:05:38] Telling me
Speaker2: [00:05:39] What was happening in Canada with the coercion of of children to get vaccine and and all of this propaganda and information that was being pushed out in social pressure that was being applied to people taking an experimental vaccine. And I had to finish the call by saying, IRA, I my heart goes out to you, but I’m not a Canadian. I don’t understand Canadian regulatory affairs and I don’t know what I can do to help you. And then I went to bed, wake up in the morning and had a brainstorm and I said, Oh, I know what I can do. The real problem here is that they’re disregarding fundamental bioethics principles. And I can write an article about the bioethics and put it in a lay press vehicle called trial site news, and that my sense, my belief was, you know, naive. I I had faith that
Speaker3: [00:06:41] Placing an article that would
Speaker2: [00:06:44] Speak about the underlying bioethics and how it relates to how governments were behaving at the time would spark discussion and in at least give some comfort in some structure to the vague sense of uneasiness that many people were experiencing. I had no idea what would happen with that when you know, I hit and sent it off, but it went viral. And I think what happened there was that there widespread really not just in Canada, in the United States, but throughout the world, there was a sense of unease of what was happening.
Speaker3: [00:07:22] This didn’t feel right. It didn’t
Speaker2: [00:07:24] Feel correct. The propaganda, the pressure, all the messaging, the coordinated press, the censorship,
Speaker3: [00:07:31] All of these things was were generating
Speaker2: [00:07:34] A sense of unease and many people a feeling that something isn’t the way it’s supposed to be. But they
Speaker3: [00:07:41] Didn’t have a
Speaker2: [00:07:42] Voice. They didn’t have an intellectual framework
Speaker3: [00:07:45] To express these vague notions
Speaker2: [00:07:48] That they had internally, you know, in their, you would say, in their soul, they knew and their soul that something wasn’t right, but they didn’t have the words or the intellectual structure to kind of process it and be able to express it. And and I
Speaker3: [00:08:02] Think that that just
Speaker2: [00:08:03] Putting out this very clear, simple couple pages,
Speaker3: [00:08:07] This has been
Speaker2: [00:08:08] Western consensus about how we should handle the ethics of. Experimental medical products and particularly the rights of the individual in this context, the rights of the individual to have full information about risks associated with an experimental product, that those risks should be communicated in a simple language that they can understand, not in technical language. And that
Speaker3: [00:08:36] And that they have the
Speaker2: [00:08:37] The the right. You might say God given right, but certainly in the western world, we’ve expressed that this is a fundamental human right to.
Speaker3: [00:08:48] To to choosing whether or
Speaker2: [00:08:50] Not to accept a medical procedure,
Speaker1: [00:08:52] We have become so used to what you said in terms of ethical understanding of medicine, we have adverse effects. So clearly explain to us every time you go to a physician, you’re asked Do you have allergies to penicillin, for example, right, that we’ve taken this for granted and therefore the introduction of a new technology that does not permit this any more. Obviously, it’s not the technology that’s not permitting this with the powers that be makes us wonder what is so strange, so different, so intimidating in a sense about AMA or any technology. Could you give our viewers a very short layman’s introduction to MRSA vaccines?
Speaker2: [00:09:40] Sure. And thank you for the opportunity. It’s really not that complicated, but I think you’ve hit on a fundamental there. It’s not the technology, it’s the communication and the rollout. The way that this has been handled, it’s been very autocratic, it’s been very paternalistic. And you’re you’re absolutely right. People find it intimidating. It seems foreign in this language. Miranda is in of itself, seen as intimidating. So let’s break it down. It’s it’s pretty simple stuff.
Speaker3: [00:10:20] So the just to start with what is Mirani in? In Biology?
Speaker2: [00:10:26] We have something called the central dogma of biology, which is that DNA makes RNA. Rna makes protein. I like to
Speaker3: [00:10:35] Use the
Speaker2: [00:10:36] So many is one type of RNA. It’s the message that goes from the DNA
Speaker3: [00:10:44] To the machinery
Speaker2: [00:10:45] That manufactures the protein. There are other types of RNA. For instance, there’s ribosome RNA, which is a different form that is used to serve as a scaffold for assembling the protein manufacturing machinery in the cell. I like to use the metaphor of a computer or your your tablet or even your cell phone all apply. But if we can think of a computer or a laptop as a metaphor for the cell and imagine the cell that is formed to your whole body is composed of cells, mostly if you imagine a cell like a fried egg. So we have the yellow part of the egg and the white part of the egg and the crunchy stuff on the edge of the thing when when you fry it.
Speaker3: [00:11:38] So that’s how you can
Speaker2: [00:11:40] Picture that as a cell.
Speaker3: [00:11:43] The DNA resides in the yellow part of the cell, and it’s akin to the hard
Speaker2: [00:11:52] Drive on your computer.
Speaker3: [00:11:54] It’s the place where the information is stored. The protein manufacturing
Speaker2: [00:12:00] Equipment resides in the white part of the egg. And you can think of that as little tiny bio robots that are
Speaker3: [00:12:09] Able, like many other
Speaker2: [00:12:11] Computer controlled robots,
Speaker3: [00:12:13] They can manufacture many
Speaker2: [00:12:15] Different things. They could manufacture car, they could carve wood. They can do many things a modern robot, right manufacturing robot. So in this metaphor, those bio robots are called ribosomes, and there’s many, many of them that live in this cytoplasmic or the white part of the egg part of the cell.
Speaker3: [00:12:36] But in order for them to do their job and make things, they need to have information signal, just like
Speaker2: [00:12:45] In in the computer metaphor, the bio robots that build cars or whatever that we’ve all seen are connected to computers by cables that transfer information from the computer, hard drive and the programs and the hard drive out to the robot.
Speaker3: [00:13:02] So in the cell, this information that’s exchanged between the
Speaker2: [00:13:08] Hard drive, which is the DNA that’s in the yellow part of the egg. Out to the robots that manufacture protein is called a message. Mm-hmm. And the chemical structure that’s used for this signal that goes from one to the other is called messenger RNA, and the abbreviation for that is RNA. The RNA part is ribonucleic acid. So that’s the big word is these. This is messenger ribonucleic acid.
Speaker3: [00:13:37] And what it is is a single stranded copy of parts of the DNA that gets processed so that it’s proper
Speaker2: [00:13:45] For conferring the information to the robots.
Speaker3: [00:13:50] And it goes from this yellow part
Speaker2: [00:13:52] Out into the white part and then instructs
Speaker3: [00:13:55] Those
Speaker2: [00:13:56] Fire robots, the ribosomes to manufacture whatever is
Speaker3: [00:14:00] Encoded by that RNA. Ok, so that’s really all it is. It sounds very complicated,
Speaker2: [00:14:06] But when you boil it down, it’s simple stuff.
Speaker3: [00:14:10] So continuing with the metaphor, we we actually have
Speaker2: [00:14:15] Two forms of genetic vaccines.
Speaker3: [00:14:18] People are focusing on the mRNA, and I’ve heard people say, well, the other vaccines, the
Speaker2: [00:14:23] Sanofi or JNJ, depending on where you are in the world. Oxford is another word that’s used for one of the adenoviral vectored vaccines. Those are also genetic vaccines. So what is this term? Genetic vaccines and some people say, are these actually vaccines or are they something else? So let’s kind of talk about that for a minute.
Speaker3: [00:14:51] There’s there’s language in various regulatory authorities statements that a vaccine
Speaker2: [00:14:57] Has to have components of the pathogen that it’s vaccinating against.
Speaker3: [00:15:02] And so people say, Well, this mRNA is not a part of these viruses,
Speaker2: [00:15:07] It’s not a part of the SARS-CoV-2
Speaker3: [00:15:09] Virus. Personally, I find that a little
Speaker2: [00:15:12] Disingenuous and a little contrived because in fact, the
Speaker3: [00:15:17] Coronavirus uses RNA as the way that it carries its genome.
Speaker2: [00:15:23] Ok, so it uses RNA, not DNA,
Speaker3: [00:15:26] And that RNA is being taken copied and many copies are being made synthetically and they’re engineered slightly. But it’s absolutely a part of the virus, the
Speaker2: [00:15:39] Mrna
Speaker3: [00:15:40] Of the virus that’s going into the mRNA, the vaccine. And in fact, what the mRNA vaccines
Speaker2: [00:15:47] Are
Speaker3: [00:15:48] Doing is taking a piece of the genome
Speaker2: [00:15:51] Of the virus that codes for the protein spike. Remember, I said
Speaker3: [00:15:55] That so it’s the it’s the information that’s necessary to make those
Speaker2: [00:15:59] Bio robots manufacture spike protein
Speaker3: [00:16:02] And it’s taken out of the virus, and it’s put synthetically into
Speaker2: [00:16:07] A broader context that makes it work better as RNA. This is part of the work that I did back in the 80s to find these elements and made these discoveries and
Speaker3: [00:16:17] Figured
Speaker2: [00:16:17] Out how to make large quantities of it and purify it and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker3: [00:16:21] So that’s you’re just taking the genes, a gene
Speaker2: [00:16:24] Out of the virus, putting it into a construct that will make it work better,
Speaker3: [00:16:31] Making large quantities of that and then putting it back into your
Speaker2: [00:16:35] Cells. That’s the way the mRNA vaccines work, and we can talk about the technology that enables that. But but that’s the essence of it, is that you
Speaker3: [00:16:45] Are introducing a genetic
Speaker2: [00:16:48] Fragment from the virus by way of this process
Speaker3: [00:16:53] Into your cells so that your cells and it only has to get into the
Speaker2: [00:16:57] Cytoplasm, the white part of the egg so that it can get to the ribosomes, the bio robots, OK,
Speaker3: [00:17:02] So that your cells then actually become
Speaker2: [00:17:04] The manufacturing facility for the vaccine. The truth is
Speaker3: [00:17:08] That the the antigen, the part that stimulates your immune response is not made in a factory. It’s made in your cells. Ok, so your cells
Speaker2: [00:17:20] Become the manufacturing plant. Now that has a
Speaker3: [00:17:22] Lot of other derivative information. That’s important because which cells for how long, how much protein, all those kinds of things
Speaker2: [00:17:31] Become important to understand. And unfortunately, we don’t understand them completely.
Speaker3: [00:17:37] Now the other vaccines there are, there are there are truly
Speaker2: [00:17:41] Traditional vaccines being made in India and China and Russia and other places.
Speaker3: [00:17:46] But here in the West, we
Speaker2: [00:17:48] Primarily only have access to the mRNA vaccines and the adenovirus vectored vaccines.
Speaker3: [00:17:54] Ok, so the adenovirus vector vaccines are also taking a gene out of the virus.
Speaker2: [00:18:01] The gene coding for spike,
Speaker3: [00:18:03] But they’re putting it into a cold virus.
Speaker2: [00:18:06] It’s a DNA cold virus, a virus adenovirus that would cause, you know, is. He with some symptoms in humans and
Speaker3: [00:18:14] It’s widely
Speaker2: [00:18:14] Circulates, is a variety of different types that infects
Speaker3: [00:18:17] Chimpanzees and
Speaker2: [00:18:19] Various other species. But it’s a DNA virus, so it the adenoviruses technology was explicitly originally designed for gene therapy purposes. Ok. It was designed to
Speaker3: [00:18:35] Produce
Speaker2: [00:18:36] High levels of protein for a very long time.
Speaker3: [00:18:40] Now, one of the leading the Johnson and
Speaker2: [00:18:43] Johnson product, one of the leading products
Speaker3: [00:18:47] Uses does use
Speaker2: [00:18:48] A cell line. This is important to your audience, does use a cell line called Percy six for manufacturing those. In other words, you
Speaker3: [00:18:57] Grow
Speaker2: [00:18:58] The cold virus, the recombinant cold virus that has the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein inserted into it.
Speaker3: [00:19:05] You grow that in
Speaker2: [00:19:07] A cultured cell line,
Speaker3: [00:19:08] And that cultured cell
Speaker2: [00:19:10] Line per C six is derived from human fetal tissue. That’s true. Ok, so let’s just get that controversy out.
Speaker3: [00:19:18] And so that gets to church
Speaker2: [00:19:21] Directives about whether or not one is facilitating or enabling a technology that is discouraged by the church, that being using human embryonic tissue for other purposes. So that’s that that’s the JNJ product.
Speaker3: [00:19:39] The adenovirus technology and the mRNA technology are explicitly gene therapy based technology applied to vaccines. Ok, so they’re with these technologies.
Speaker2: [00:19:54] You can use them for a variety of purposes.
Speaker3: [00:19:57] You know, the idea that I can engineer your
Speaker2: [00:19:59] Cells to produce a foreign protein could be used to cure, treat, cure or treat cancer. Potentially it could. It was originally envisioned as a way to correct inborn errors and metabolism. This is, you know, pediatric genetic disease like muscular dystrophy, et cetera. That was the goal,
Speaker3: [00:20:21] Unfortunately for the gene
Speaker2: [00:20:23] Therapy application for either mRNA as a drug or for adenovirus vector technology. The.
Speaker3: [00:20:33] Foreign genes
Speaker2: [00:20:35] Introduced into your body
Speaker3: [00:20:38] Are seen by your immune
Speaker2: [00:20:39] System is foreign.
Speaker3: [00:20:41] Yes, as not part of you and your our immune systems are all excruciatingly
Speaker2: [00:20:47] Well designed to
Speaker3: [00:20:49] Enable the detection
Speaker2: [00:20:51] Of foreign material, particularly for nucleic acids, you know, foreign DNA and RNA.
Speaker3: [00:20:56] And what that does is it provokes
Speaker2: [00:21:01] An immune response, an innate or adaptive immune response. So antibodies and T cells and things like that that will attack any cell that’s producing these foreign proteins. So the whole concept noble concept that Ted Friedman came up with in the 1970s that we could cure these genetic diseases, pediatric genetic diseases using this kind of gene therapy approach
Speaker3: [00:21:25] Turned out to have a major flaw, which is your immune system. Okay. And and so the the one of the key epiphanies
Speaker2: [00:21:35] For me when I was a young graduate student at the SALT, when I, you know, was involved in some of the first experiments that made it clear this was a key problem was
Speaker3: [00:21:48] That that this problem that would limit the use of these technologies for gene therapy could
Speaker2: [00:21:54] Be I like to use the metaphor. You could make lemonade out of the lemon. And so this.
Speaker3: [00:22:05] This technology that
Speaker2: [00:22:07] Didn’t look like it was going to work for its intended purpose could be used for eliciting an immune response, a vaccine.
Speaker3: [00:22:15] And so that’s what launched
Speaker2: [00:22:16] This whole genetic vaccine idea.
Speaker3: [00:22:18] Okay, now why is
Speaker2: [00:22:19] It different and why is it so scary? Kind of. Well, we the technology, both technologies
Speaker3: [00:22:27] Involve transferring foreign genetic
Speaker2: [00:22:30] Material into your cells and causing your cells to manufacture these proteins.
Speaker3: [00:22:35] Now there’s another thing that does this that very efficiently
Speaker2: [00:22:40] Transfers foreign genetic material into your cells and causes your cells to manufacture proteins.
Speaker3: [00:22:46] And it’s called viruses, OK, which is why most of the gene therapy technologies like the
Speaker2: [00:22:54] Adenovirus are a vectored
Speaker3: [00:22:56] Are based on viruses because this is what viruses normally do. Viruses are are they’re non-living parasites. They’re they’re basically parasitic DNA and RNA that can’t replicate itself unless it gets into your cells. And so that’s when we think about this and we think, Oh, this is so scary, it’s putting foreign genetic material into our cells. Well, the truth is that’s what the SARS-CoV-2 virus does to or the adenovirus or or respiratory syncytial virus or influenza or any of these other viruses. That’s exactly what they’re doing. So it it sounds very scary and foreign, and in technically it is creating genetically modified
Speaker2: [00:23:38] Organisms
Speaker3: [00:23:39] Out of all of us. This is true. I find it fascinating that the
Speaker2: [00:23:42] European community isn’t up in arms about this.
Speaker3: [00:23:45] Based on their historic position on genetically modified organisms organisms. But that in fact, that is what we’re doing. But it’s also what the virus is doing. And the virus, the native virus SARS-CoV-2 does it much more efficiently than the mRNA does. So when we when we’re when people are are are having these fears
Speaker2: [00:24:08] And anxieties, which I don’t discount, I don’t wish to in any way denigrate anyone who is having these anxieties about this unknown technology.
Speaker3: [00:24:25] It’s it’s useful to remember
Speaker2: [00:24:27] That if you get the virus itself,
Speaker3: [00:24:31] The virus is putting this same gene into your
Speaker2: [00:24:33] Body and doing it even more efficiently.
Speaker3: [00:24:37] Now the the logic here is that we can insert just the
Speaker2: [00:24:43] Gene for spike into your cells and provoke enough of an immune response
Speaker3: [00:24:51] That when you get infected by
Speaker2: [00:24:52] The virus, you get exposed to the virus. You won’t get infection, replication and disease because your immune system will be ready to attack the virus as soon as it arrives.
Speaker3: [00:25:04] So that’s that’s the if. If everything was perfect and we lived in a perfect world, that’s how this would work.
Speaker2: [00:25:13] Unfortunately, everything isn’t perfect and we don’t live in a perfect world,
Speaker3: [00:25:17] But that that is the the noble
Speaker2: [00:25:20] Idea behind this. And then we can speak about the the, you know, the real world of what’s actually happened. But I hope that helps
Speaker3: [00:25:30] Both alleviate anxiety about these technologies and and clarify some of the language and
Speaker2: [00:25:40] And the the underlying technology.
Speaker1: [00:25:42] Thank you, Dr. Malone, for that prodigious sweep of my RNA and DNA virus technology. And thank you for enlightening our readers. The. This clarifies a lot of misinformation that has been spewed, particularly by people who defend vigorously the RNA vaccine and say, well, it’s not genetic therapy. Of course there are those and literally erect a straw man saying that you’re not going to turn into a modified, genetically modified individual. And I’m very grateful to you for clarifying this and pushing aside misinformation, really.
Speaker2: [00:26:31] Thanks, I. A.. So as.
Speaker3: [00:26:35] You know, we all know that we live in a time in which
Speaker2: [00:26:38] These labels are cast about indiscriminately. And certainly, I’ve been labeled as a purveyor of misinformation or disinformation.
Speaker3: [00:26:52] But but I I suggest that using these labels
Speaker2: [00:26:57] To oversimplify complex topics doesn’t help us as a community. Yeah, I think that we we would be much better served by. I’m being a little more open minded, a little more kind with each other in our communication and recognize that diversity of opinion and perspective is a healthy thing.
Speaker1: [00:27:29] Well, that’s what science has been about for a very long time now. But your discoveries in MRN in known viral delivery systems are considered the key to the current COVID 19 vaccine strategies. Your work has resulted in over 10 patents and over 7000 citations in peer reviewed scientific journals for this work alone. A scientist whose work is pivotal to the vaccine ought to be nominated for the Nobel Prize. But when I do a Google search on your name, I find you fact checked and discredited as a fraud. The Atlantic, a left wing publication, labels you as the vaccine scientist spreading vaccine misinformation. Just talked about that, and according to The Associated Press, that bastion of truthful journalism. I’m being sarcastic. You claim to have invented the idea of RNA vaccine technology, but you were not involved in developing COVID 19 vaccines. The hit job on you is pretty thorough. Your enemies are attacking the very foundations of your scientific credibility. Obviously, non-specialists are not going to read your peer reviewed articles, and yet you have a well over three hundred and fifty thousand followers on Twitter, including some of the world’s top doctors and scientists reading and tweeting your misinformation.
Speaker3: [00:29:14] Yeah. So what? What’s been fascinating
Speaker2: [00:29:17] For me and I try not to get radicalized by the experience
Speaker3: [00:29:25] Is is this coordinated
Speaker2: [00:29:28] Campaign of smearing individuals because they are speaking. I’m in ways that are not completely consistent with the approved narrative. And it’s I take comfort, both in the support of many all over the world, including yourself. There’s great kindness that I experience every day. So in the face of of these smear campaigns, the the kind handwritten letters that I receive, the people that hug me on the street, the physicians that thank me for speaking out in, recognize and applaud my attempts to provide leadership in this are very comforting and and a bastion against damage to my heart and my soul that comes with this type of tactic. But what’s also become clear to me as as this strategy coordinated strategy in the press of these demeaning statements and personal attacks and homonyms derogatory language, et cetera that’s used in the Atlantic piece is fascinating for that because it starts off very derisive, very dismissive using kind of classical yellow journalism techniques,
Speaker3: [00:31:03] By the way, written
Speaker2: [00:31:04] By a young gentleman with very little background in journalism and not really trained in journalistic ethics, which is a characteristic of most of these fact checkers is they’re funded by these
Speaker3: [00:31:17] Large
Speaker2: [00:31:17] Corporate entities like Facebook that in Google and the Zuckerberg Chan Initiative, which is also Facebook money and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which is the largest I think are one of the largest shareholders of Johnson and Johnson stock. So there are these and
Speaker3: [00:31:36] Then Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which
Speaker2: [00:31:39] Which Bill has bragged on video about the enormous return on investment he has received
Speaker3: [00:31:46] From his vaccine stock
Speaker2: [00:31:48] Investments. So we think of Bill and Melinda Gates as this philanthropic foundation that undoubtedly must be losing billions and billions of dollars in joining the worldwide fight to overcome the effects of SARS-CoV-2 in the global population will.
Speaker3: [00:32:04] In fact, he’s made an enormous profit off of this. Ok, so we the atmospherics versus this controlled
Speaker2: [00:32:12] Media and propaganda and fact checking smear operation are
Speaker3: [00:32:16] Fascinating just to watch. I mean, for me, as you know, kind of taking an academic
Speaker2: [00:32:21] Perspective and looking at this, it’s it. I find it fascinating.
Speaker3: [00:32:26] It’s as if the the hand
Speaker2: [00:32:30] Of of this globally integrated system that we now have with the Global News Initiative, integrating all of the major public news publications, integrating with these large tech giants and other media outlets. And in the video press, it’s, you know, CNN and these.
Speaker3: [00:32:53] It’s been fascinating to watch this integration. I think one of the most
Speaker2: [00:32:58] Clear cut examples
Speaker3: [00:32:59] Has been the smearing of ivermectin as horse paste. Right. So this is a W.H.O. approved drug that has been given out by Merck. So, so given out by Merck over many years in in philanthropy. Uh, to
Speaker2: [00:33:16] Literally billions of doses
Speaker3: [00:33:18] Used
Speaker2: [00:33:19] For years to treat river blindness quite successfully in Africa and many other parasitic diseases
Speaker3: [00:33:25] And and so this all happens and Merck, who happens to
Speaker2: [00:33:29] Be developing their own drug, their own antiviral for SARS-CoV-2,
Speaker3: [00:33:33] Comes out with these
Speaker2: [00:33:34] Statements that ivermectin is toxic.
Speaker3: [00:33:38] If it’s toxic, why were they giving it to billions of doses and millions of Africans? And in fact, you know, it’s it’s on the WHO essential medicines list. But we saw this coordinated attack in the United States press on
Speaker2: [00:33:54] Ivermectin as a horse drug.
Speaker3: [00:33:56] And the the reason was is because people out of
Speaker2: [00:33:59] Desperation of not having early treatments available in the states
Speaker3: [00:34:04] Have started turning to the only source of ivermectin
Speaker2: [00:34:07] That they can get,
Speaker3: [00:34:08] Which is to buy the horse pace that’s available in feed stores so that the know what’s the so I can go on and on about about this press campaign. It’s fascinating.
Speaker1: [00:34:19] It’s interesting. You mention this because a friend of mine on the Isle of Man ordered ivermectin last month from India when he was visiting England because he couldn’t find it there. And a week ago, he, his wife, his wife, caught the COVID from him and his daughter all had COVID and they took ivermectin. They didn’t go to their local GP and they have improved drastically as a result of taking ivermectin. But here to order it from India, where it has been given to thousands of people in a number of states and the COVID seems to have disappeared
Speaker3: [00:34:58] The same same in Mexico.
Speaker2: [00:35:00] I had dinner last night with two Peruvian physicians that routinely use ivermectin.
Speaker3: [00:35:05] And in that case, they’re forced
Speaker2: [00:35:07] To buy the animal powder and reformulate it for humans and
Speaker3: [00:35:12] Formularies. But that’s that’s what’s going on across the world. And yet there’s this concerted effort. So getting back on point. What is my experience
Speaker2: [00:35:23] With these attack pieces? And you mentioned the Atlantic one, which is particularly egregious
Speaker3: [00:35:27] Because it used these yellow
Speaker2: [00:35:29] Journalism euphemisms in introducing
Speaker3: [00:35:31] Me. And yet at the end, it it it kind of paradoxically counteracts all the logic that it was building before and says it acknowledges that I’m a candidate and and closes with this fascinating
Speaker2: [00:35:49] Line from a colleague of mine, Stan Gronkowski, who who took a job in the company. After I left
Speaker3: [00:35:55] That, that basically states Robert should stop speaking out because it places
Speaker2: [00:36:02] The potential Nobel Prize at risk for being outspoken.
Speaker3: [00:36:07] And and I find that actually flattering because it’s true there. There was the moment with the Brett Weinstein
Speaker2: [00:36:18] Podcast as Steve and Brett and I sat down at that table
Speaker3: [00:36:22] Before we started videoing. We all acknowledged
Speaker2: [00:36:26] How much we were putting at risk.
Speaker3: [00:36:28] And in fact, Steve Kirsch has lost his
Speaker2: [00:36:31] Job as the chief executive officer of the company that he had founded because he’s been slandered in the press in the same way as being a vaccine denier and vaccine skeptic.
Speaker3: [00:36:43] Brett Weinstein has been deplatformed from YouTube, which means that he’s lost
Speaker2: [00:36:47] The majority of his family’s income, and I’ve been slandered in the press and attacked.
Speaker3: [00:36:52] But in my
Speaker2: [00:36:54] Case, and I think in all of our cases, but certainly in my case,
Speaker3: [00:36:57] The warm
Speaker2: [00:36:58] Embrace of the world community for for my being early in giving voice to these concerns about the ethics of what’s happening far
Speaker3: [00:37:13] Outweighs any damage in in my heart from from these kinds of attacks. But what I’ve learned
Speaker2: [00:37:20] In talking to others now that have experienced this same pattern, same precise pattern
Speaker3: [00:37:27] Is that this is almost a script this this method of attacking and demeaning and labeling. I mean, we first saw it. If you think back, we’ve seen it for years
Speaker2: [00:37:39] With Bobby Kennedy
Speaker3: [00:37:41] And labeling him as
Speaker2: [00:37:42] A vaccine denier. Now, what most people don’t
Speaker3: [00:37:44] Appreciate is that Bobby is a good chance that Bobby is
Speaker2: [00:37:48] Actually vaccine damaged if you ever hear him
Speaker3: [00:37:50] Speak. He has this problem
Speaker2: [00:37:52] With Lorengau spasm, and this is one of the most common effects of influenza vaccine in adults. Adverse events is this exact problem that he has.
Speaker3: [00:38:03] So I
Speaker2: [00:38:04] Think that a little temperance in labeling our colleagues and peers
Speaker3: [00:38:14] Would
Speaker2: [00:38:14] Be well served. I think that this, you know, I guess it sells newspapers. I guess it’s profitable to take these positions.
Speaker1: [00:38:23] It’s more than selling newspapers at this stage because I tell my friends Joseph Goebbels would be proud and take correspondence lessons indeed, force, you know, in a lot of these cases, because you have Justin Trudeau pointedly questioned on the efficacy of transmission and safety of the vaccines. And he just repeats almost like a magic mantra. Vaccines are safe and they work. And this seems like a talking point that has been given to people to parent. So, so the propaganda is so immense. And sadly, the Vatican has bought into this propaganda and has now become one of the biggest engines of this propaganda. At the Rome conference, which I was at yesterday and privileged to hear you speak. You spoke about your meeting with Cardinal Peter Turkson, who is president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace Now under Pope Francis. The Vatican has turned into one of the most zealot vaccine advocates ever, and ironically, it’s the Pontifical Academy for Life under Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, who has been leading the charge of the vaccine brigade and inviting shockingly notorious pro-abortion scientists, doctors, medics to address global audiences. Judge Militante has covered this extensively, and we have repeatedly asked them. A month ago, for example, we openly challenged them and asked them to invite a wider spectrum of scientists so people can at least understand that. The nature the debate is contested in peer reviewed medical journals on COVID vaccines, so in your conversation with Cardinal Turkson, our readers would be very, very curious to know about this conversation. And for example, did he give you an assurance that you might be invited to speak at a forthcoming vaccine conference to talk about your invention, your contribution, your views?
Speaker2: [00:40:36] So I was very grateful for the cardinal’s willingness to meet with me. He was very generous and it was on very short notice. He did not provide, nor did I ask for any ongoing role. It was not my objective. Ok, I I was grateful for the advocacy of numerous people within the United States community that believed that it would be useful to have me have an informal conversation with the cardinal and particularly with this cardinal. Their belief was that he would be more open and highly influential in receptive to listening to this alternative point of view. And so that was my objective was not to. I’m strongly advocate for any change in position on the part of the church that would not be my that’s that’s not. Not within the scope of of my mission and my and my role in the world. I what I can do and seek to do is is not to try to fight or have conflict with others, but to provide information and encourage others to think and give them the information that. She demonstrates that we don’t have to have this dichotomy of pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine, that there is middle space between those two extremes
Speaker3: [00:42:36] That makes good
Speaker2: [00:42:39] Sense scientifically and good sense ethically. And my goal in speaking with the cardinal was to share with him a a different point of view that he and the church might consider, not as a radical change to their current position, but as an opportunity to consider a modification in their position. A subtle modification that I believe would would help the church stake out a moral position that I think would serve the church well over time. I I one of my gifts is that I am able to see trends and patterns before many others do. This is just how my mind works. And so I in this outbreak, as in all others, I’m always trying to think forward, what are things look like in six months? What do they look like in a year from now? And so my what I shared with Cardinal Turkson was some observations and ideas around this middle ground where it’s not only vaccine for everybody or no vaccine because vaccine
Speaker3: [00:44:01] Is bad, but rather a
Speaker2: [00:44:04] A middle ground position. And and I. Aware of how important this meeting was and the importance of my being a responsible messenger, I was very careful in my wording and and he was very careful in his listening to his great credit. He took extensive notes in his notebook concerning
Speaker3: [00:44:38] The key points I was making and then shared with me his own
Speaker2: [00:44:44] Experiences from his standpoint, both in the church and what the church had done, and the church’s early attempts at
Speaker3: [00:44:59] Advocating for equity in the vaccines
Speaker2: [00:45:04] And their leadership. I hadn’t been aware of the importance of the church’s leadership
Speaker3: [00:45:10] In the initiative that had sought
Speaker2: [00:45:12] To waive intellectual property rights to ensure wider accessibility of these products in less economically advantaged countries. He’s very aware that the position that the WHO has taken that.
Speaker3: [00:45:35] What we’re seeing functionally is the vaccines
Speaker2: [00:45:40] Are, you know, in a very practical way,
Speaker3: [00:45:44] One could make the case they’re being hoarded
Speaker2: [00:45:46] By the Western nations and in access to vaccines in emerging economies or less developed nations and cultures is is far from optimal.
Speaker3: [00:45:59] And this was consistent.
Speaker2: [00:46:01] So he was reacting to some of the points that I had made in a very favorable way in acknowledging that this had been the initial attempt by the church. And also the church had advocated for loan forgiveness so that these countries would have more capital so they could purchase vaccine because they are bound in a position where they’re constrained financially by these large loans that they have to service. They don’t have the capital to go out and purchase vaccine on the free market as much as in this competitive landscape that we’ve set up, which has resulted in a western large economies largely dominating the vaccine acquisition and in availability. So my my the information that I shared with him very much related to this and emphasized that. That the the risk associated with this disease is not uniformly distributed. It’s it’s almost exclusively in the very old and obese and others with certain pre-existing risk factors. And it’s for the general population and the healthy population. The risk is infinitesimal. It’s really quite modest. The the scare propaganda that is pushed on us almost incessantly that we all have this risk. Those of us in this room and most of the audience and that the children have these risks.
Speaker3: [00:47:44] These this is
Speaker2: [00:47:45] Not supported by data, the information that I’m aware of. For instance, in the United States, there’s been less than four hundred deaths from this disease in the pediatric population. This is up to the age of 18.
Speaker3: [00:48:02] And virtually every single
Speaker2: [00:48:04] One of those deaths had major pre-existing medical conditions.
Speaker3: [00:48:08] So this means that the
Speaker2: [00:48:10] Risk for the healthy child is almost nonexistent. In in contrast, deaths to children from influenza in the United States are often much higher, often six hundred deaths per year or more. So this is an example that illustrates that we’re we’re constantly bombarded by all of this information suggesting that all of us should be afraid and we should be sequestered in our homes in a state of fear is is false.
Speaker1: [00:48:44] Well, I hope if I may ask, was he aware of the contested nature of the debate
Speaker3: [00:48:51] Or I can’t say what my sense is that he had.
Speaker2: [00:48:58] Significant awareness of many aspects of these things, but not awareness of the latest information
Speaker3: [00:49:05] That the vaccines
Speaker2: [00:49:08] Are are not able to prevent. Infection, replication and spread
Speaker3: [00:49:16] And the degree to which they’re
Speaker2: [00:49:18] Not able to prevent infection, replication and spread of the virus in with the delta strain.
Speaker3: [00:49:24] So this seemed to have been new information to him. And so, so the logic, I think it may have been
Speaker2: [00:49:34] New to him
Speaker3: [00:49:36] To hear this logic, which is really breaking
Speaker2: [00:49:39] Based on the latest data that I’ve been trying to share through these various vehicles. Like you’ve, you’ve noted so that people are aware of this information. I don’t think
Speaker3: [00:49:51] He was aware that the vaccines. I know he was aware
Speaker2: [00:49:55] Of the controversy concerning the vaccine risks. And I don’t wish to breach the confidence of the communications.
Speaker3: [00:50:06] But he did share with me some examples of
Speaker2: [00:50:11] Vaccine adverse events
Speaker3: [00:50:13] That had been experienced by the church.
Speaker2: [00:50:16] Ok, OK. So so there is awareness of that risk side, but I don’t think there was full awareness
Speaker3: [00:50:24] That the the current vaccines
Speaker2: [00:50:27] With the current strain cannot get us to a position where if we were to all accept
Speaker3: [00:50:33] Vaccine, we would cease to
Speaker2: [00:50:35] Have the risk of the virus and the virus disease and the virus infection and the virus spread. The idea that the vaccinated are not are perhaps between 40 and 60 percent protected relative to the unvaccinated from infection and and that the levels of replication, if they are infected, are at least as high, if not higher,
Speaker3: [00:50:58] And that they are also able to spread virus this.
Speaker2: [00:51:01] I don’t think this concept was in his mind before our conversation.
Speaker3: [00:51:06] He did speak of the morality of the
Speaker2: [00:51:11] Situation, and I suspect
Speaker3: [00:51:13] That this may be
Speaker2: [00:51:14] Where the church’s position may derive that
Speaker3: [00:51:18] It it is. It is the logic that one would receive vaccine as an act of potential self-sacrifice. Precisely charity to one’s neighbor, I think, is is the bedrock of where the church is coming from and their advocacy. Based on my communication with him and what I shared with him was that this concept, while noble and laudable and I fully support the underlying morality that that sacrificing for
Speaker2: [00:51:59] The common good is a fundamental tenet of. Commitment, personal commitment to ethics,
Speaker3: [00:52:09] Right to being an ethical person is a willingness to suspend one’s self interest in in favor of the interests of the broader community and one’s fellow human. I mean, this is in in your your listenership is is Christian and fundamentally committed to Christian principles, and this is one of the strongest positive things is is this commitment to community. And I think that is where the church is. My sense from speaking to the cardinal is that this is the foundation of the church’s position is is grounded in this idea of of self-sacrifice
Speaker2: [00:52:50] For the greater good.
Speaker3: [00:52:52] And as I say, I strongly support that. If we don’t have that, we all end up as economic units in Klaus Schwab’s world, right? Right. Which is my big objection, is that we’ve chosen to define the human condition using the language of economics. I strongly object to this. We do have a moral and we do have souls, and there is unique fire within each one of us that should not be reduced to an economic calculation. We degrade humanity by doing this. And so I fully support this, this logic in and in fact, I’m living it. I’m sacrificing my career. I’m sacrificing my income in order to try to do what I believe to be serve the common good. Through my communication and and my own personal skills and knowledge. Sharing this with the world to advance the common good. But so, so I I what I’m trying to say is I applaud the position of the church as it comes from this point of view. But what I shared with the cardinal was that this is based on false information and that what what is being asked of
Speaker2: [00:54:10] Of your community or our community, really, it’s all of our community
Speaker3: [00:54:15] Is self-sacrificing to a
Speaker2: [00:54:19] False endpoint. And you can
Speaker3: [00:54:21] Catch the language there about where we’re going. You know, I don’t want to talk about the Golden Calf, but but we are in a position where we are are believing that we are serving a common good by accepting a product that does not have the necessary characteristics. We cannot get to this point of blocking death and disease and recovering our economy using these vaccines because they are not perfect.
Speaker1: [00:54:54] And of course, telling someone to love their neighbor, exhorting someone to love their neighbor is slowly morphing or it has already morphed into I’m going to force you to love your neighbor because I’m going to force vaccine mandates. As President Joe Biden has just done in the last few in the last week, putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work and in a very Kafkaesque manner, threatening 80 million Americans.
Speaker3: [00:55:30] Now, I wish I were that’s a good question, and it’s my only question is the
Speaker2: [00:55:36] Answer is it’s going to a very dark place and and we’ll see how this plays out in time.
Speaker3: [00:55:42] I don’t think if this is a
Speaker2: [00:55:44] Political calculation, I don’t think it is going to serve him well. Mm hmm.
Speaker3: [00:55:48] I I what I see. And and this has been a fascinating journey for me is I’ve been embraced by
Speaker2: [00:55:58] Religious communities all over the world and particularly in the United States
Speaker3: [00:56:02] And particularly by mothers and people of conscience that that have become very alarmed. Also in Europe, many communities in Europe, intellectual
Speaker2: [00:56:18] Communities are very sensitized to this fundamental question. How did things go wrong in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties?
Speaker3: [00:56:27] Ok. How did this happen here in Italy? This is something that’s very much in the Italian psyche, right? As it is in Germany, right? How did how did things go so wrong? And and and in the church community in the United States, what I’m hearing, which is part of why they’ve advocated that I speak with the cardinal so strongly is is this sense of creeping authoritarianism and in your world, you might call it secular authoritarianism, and
Speaker1: [00:56:59] We’ve sadly is being endorsed by the church. And this is what I keep telling my priest friends. The church in Nazi Germany, sadly, was on the wrong side of history, with notable exceptions like Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the church is going down that route again, and this is what we are alarmed about.
Speaker3: [00:57:20] So. So this is I I really try hard to stay in focused on trying to be centrist, balanced, a calm in an empathetic. Hmm. Right. So. I I infer. That the church’s position must derive from this
Speaker2: [00:57:46] Fundamental commitment to love thy brother.
Speaker3: [00:57:50] Ok? And giving them the benefit that that this is really, truly where they’re
Speaker2: [00:57:54] Coming from,
Speaker3: [00:57:55] Because the cardinal is very aware that in these times there’s a long history of. Along the whole economic chain
Speaker2: [00:58:07] Of opportunism, let’s say, OK,
Speaker3: [00:58:10] He’s he’s aware of the that there are financial major financial
Speaker2: [00:58:17] Interests in play with the pharmaceutical industry
Speaker3: [00:58:20] And many of these others.
Speaker2: [00:58:21] Ok.
Speaker1: [00:58:21] May I pause there for a moment? May I interrupt? I apologize because this is something that is again very worrying. For the last 40 years or 50 years, the church has taken a radical social justice position almost against capitalism, with the Jesuits being at the forefront of liberation theology. But for the first time, we see that the church is on virtually on the side of Big Pharma, who are pumping hundreds of millions into the FDA. We have written about this that judge Militante. The FDA is in hand in glove with the church. And you’ve talked about the poor who are, you know, the church, particularly the poor. In Third World countries, the church has taken a preferential option for the poor. But here we see a kind of collective madness that seems to mitigate against everything the social justice wing of the church.
Speaker3: [00:59:17] So, so my sense is that we must assume good faith in this, particularly with the church. I, my willingness to extend good faith to Pfizer corporate leadership is as a little small. You know this long history of corporate fines and misbehavior? Ok, but but this is not the case with this pope
Speaker2: [00:59:46] And this church, in my opinion.
Speaker3: [00:59:48] If anything, the criticism has been that
Speaker2: [00:59:51] They’ve gone too far in the other direction.
Speaker3: [00:59:53] So I agree that this is a paradox. And when you see that my inference is that this must reflect other forces or other logic. I cannot intellectually, if if I can’t allow myself to go intellectually to a position of the church having
Speaker2: [01:00:10] Been compromised by the financial interests of the large pharmaceutical industry. I just
Speaker3: [01:00:14] I can’t allow myself to think that if, if, if I go there,
Speaker2: [01:00:19] Then I then I despair.
Speaker3: [01:00:23] I have to imagine in in believe that the church is
Speaker2: [01:00:29] Grounded in
Speaker3: [01:00:32] Deep
Speaker2: [01:00:32] Fundamental commitment to morality for all humans.
Speaker3: [01:00:37] And and I share your
Speaker2: [01:00:41] Sense of
Speaker3: [01:00:42] Alarm that there seems to be this paradox. I I think that giving the benefit of the doubt that this must derive from the
Speaker2: [01:00:51] Logic of
Speaker3: [01:00:53] Community sacrifice
Speaker2: [01:00:55] And that this being a noble cause and this should be the appropriate stance to
Speaker3: [01:00:59] Take. What I’ve tried to share and continue to advocate, and it’s not only, I believe, the moral position, it’s also the
Speaker2: [01:01:09] Scientifically sound position is
Speaker3: [01:01:12] That the universal vaccination strategy, which would be noble and appropriate if we had very effective vaccines that would stop the spread and didn’t have significant toxicity. We don’t have those vaccines.
Speaker2: [01:01:26] I wish we did OK.
Speaker3: [01:01:28] So we have to live in the real world and this idea of self-sacrifice for the good of the whole fails in that you’re sacrificing for something that will not get us to the the objective in seculars might call this social contract the social contract being that if you make this sacrifice to society, then we will all benefit because we will be able to rekindle normal, normal activity, normal interpersonal activity, travel, economic activity and our daily lives. Coming together as families and humans will will be freed from the burden of this virus. If we would only all accept vaccine, but that won’t get us there and what’s happening now in the states and I think there’s a gradual awakening is the realization that this is a false precept that that these vaccines cannot get us to that objective. Yet the authorities have told us that they will. So now what’s happened is the authorities have
Speaker2: [01:02:40] Compromised their moral position, their authority
Speaker3: [01:02:43] Position on their legitimacy as authorities by advocating these simple
Speaker2: [01:02:48] Things. And you were speaking of Mr. Trudeau
Speaker3: [01:02:51] That are not consistent with the facts, not consistent with the data. And and as you point out, the church has its its fundamental strength. Is in morality and in moral leadership, it’s not in science and technology. So they’ve been dependent on the information that they’ve been receiving from the audiences, that the communities that have very aggressively sought to control the
Speaker2: [01:03:20] Information that the church has available to process.
Speaker3: [01:03:23] And I think this is what I hope is significant about my being able to speak to the
Speaker2: [01:03:29] Cardinal as a dissenter, a gentle Descender dissenter saying,
Speaker3: [01:03:34] No, these these things that you’ve been told that are truths are not truths. These are the data. This is the facts. And and so what I have advocated with the cardinal is is aligned with the W.H.O.
Speaker2: [01:03:47] Position that it is much more ethical
Speaker3: [01:03:50] To make vaccine available globally
Speaker2: [01:03:53] For the elders
Speaker3: [01:03:54] Of all cultures. It’s important, I think, to recognize that those that are dying represent the cultural memory, the leadership, the elders from each of these communities. Any time a village loses its elders, this is a huge tragedy. Right. This is the accumulated wisdom of that culture. Whether it’s a village, a city, a nation, a community of any kind, if we’re losing the wisdom and perspective of those that have lived long. This is truly a major cultural loss, and we should protect these people carefully. They should be our primary focus because those are the ones at greatest risk of death and disease from this virus. It’s not the pediatric population, it’s not the young adults,
Speaker1: [01:04:44] But Dr. Malone. This is precisely the groups that have been targeted, and when we speak of sacrifice, we speak of loving your neighbor. Why isn’t the church seeing that the vaccines are causing are actually resulting in sacrifice? Not the kind of sacrifice we would like to see, but the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of people databases. All government databases all over the world are showing as evidence of adverse side effects and a significant number of deaths. In fact, more people have died from this vaccine than all the previous vaccines put together that that’s what you know,
Speaker3: [01:05:25] That is asserted based on in part of the problem. So we have to be careful here because we’ll be fact
Speaker2: [01:05:30] Checked on this.
Speaker3: [01:05:31] Yes, is is so the counterpoint to that comment is that that is based on these flawed, flawed self-reported
Speaker2: [01:05:40] Databases that are
Speaker3: [01:05:41] Notoriously misreporting. But the truth is that what’s been documented
Speaker2: [01:05:47] Before this outbreak
Speaker3: [01:05:48] Was that they grossly underreport those events. And so if if one takes, if one accepts the logic that these flawed self-reporting databases, the raw data coming out of them indicates, as you suggest, and then you say, Well, if we go back in the historical literature
Speaker2: [01:06:07] Before all this happened and all the propaganda
Speaker3: [01:06:09] And spin, how much was that underreporting? It varies depending on the variable that’s being underreported, but it’s in the range of 10 to one hundred fold, not 110, 100 percent, 10 to 100 fold. Ok, so then when we say, you know, it’s this
Speaker2: [01:06:26] Number of deaths that have been reported into this database
Speaker3: [01:06:29] From this country in in certainly in the United States, we have to also consider that the that represents a gross underreporting of the actual
Speaker2: [01:06:41] Number.
Speaker3: [01:06:42] So what is the true number? Unfortunately, we can’t get that because of the way that
Speaker2: [01:06:47] The governments have elected to roll this out.
Speaker3: [01:06:50] And I think that that that logic. Um, I think what we
Speaker2: [01:06:56] Have is a situation where historically
Speaker3: [01:07:00] There has this goes back to mid-century mid 20th century and before it’s based on the thinking of Plato.
Speaker2: [01:07:07] Hmm. And it’s referred to as the noble lie, the
Speaker3: [01:07:11] Logic that there is a cadre of elite that have the true knowledge that is so complex and so nuanced that it can’t be shared with the average person and that the average person should merely accede to the wisdom of the leaders and the empowered, and that it’s acceptable for those
Speaker2: [01:07:38] Leaders and
Speaker3: [01:07:38] Empowered to speak myths, truths or lie. Hence, the nobility in service of the common good. And we have this captured in federal law in the Federal Register.
Speaker2: [01:07:51] Ironically, in nineteen eighty four,
Speaker3: [01:07:53] In
Speaker2: [01:07:54] The context of a polio virus campaign
Speaker3: [01:07:57] In which the government clearly states that any information which would cause vaccine
Speaker2: [01:08:02] Hesitancy or resistance, whether true or untrue,
Speaker3: [01:08:05] Shall be discouraged. That shall not be allowed. Ok, so this is federal policy, and I think this is this this historic logic that’s been accepted worldwide that it’s OK to mislead
Speaker2: [01:08:21] People about the truth because it’s for their own good
Speaker3: [01:08:26] Has. And then then we had the
Speaker2: [01:08:28] H1n1
Speaker3: [01:08:29] Swine flu outbreak with all of that kerfuffle. And I think the government
Speaker2: [01:08:34] In the U.S. and then as U.S. being leaders in health, much of the world has followed
Speaker3: [01:08:40] The logic that it’s OK to speak mistruths for the common good and this has been justified. And I feel like what’s happened is they kind of dug themselves into a hole. And if people love my colloquialism, so the first rule of holes is when you’re in one stop digging and then the the the government’s, I think, have not heard that rule very well, and they seem to keep digging it okay and they continue to continue misrepresenting information, including this information about death. Hmm. But getting back on point regarding the cardinal, what I tried to share with him is that there is strong data coming in supporting the logic of Gert van der Bosch and other leading virologists that this policy of universal vaccination that is based on some flawed assumptions
Speaker2: [01:09:40] Also has the risk of creating super viruses.
Speaker3: [01:09:43] And so it’s it’s bad science and and that what we’re doing is compromising individual rights. We’re going down this authoritarian path of mandating someone accepting a medical product that is, no matter what you want to say, it is far from perfect. It is associated with adverse events, it is associated with the risk of death. And we can have an arm wrestling match about whether the the risk benefit ratio justifies vaccinating two year olds or eight year olds or 18 year olds or or 80 year olds. Right now, I’m in the camp that for those over about sixty five, vaccination probably makes good sense, even though it has risks. But the risks of the virus are greater than the risks, significantly greater than the risk. And if you’re an 80 year old like Mr Biden or Mr Fauci, the risks or Speaker Pelosi, the risks are quite high that if you contract this disease in the absence of a vaccine, you will
Speaker1: [01:10:53] Die and hopefully if you have a comorbidity. Yeah, in Mr Biden’s case, it’s senility. No, I’m sorry.
Speaker3: [01:11:01] Yeah, but you just did. So so so I I agree. There’s there’s there’s the appearance of a conflict of interest in certain age cohorts that are happening to be making decisions. We can leave it at that. But but in the case of the cardinal, he shared that that the Vatican has all been vaccinated. He’s received vaccine. What I found fascinating, so so the logic is let’s save the vaccine globally for the elders that really need it, not give it to everybody so that we don’t generate
Speaker2: [01:11:35] These vaccine resistant virus mutants. These superbugs, like we do with our overuse of antibiotics
Speaker3: [01:11:43] And make early drug treatments available with these imperfect but very powerful combinations
Speaker2: [01:11:52] That are being discussed actively.
Speaker3: [01:11:54] In the conference that’s being held here, the first international conference bringing
Speaker2: [01:11:59] Together physicians and scientists from all over the world
Speaker3: [01:12:02] That have pioneered
Speaker2: [01:12:03] These treatment protocols
Speaker3: [01:12:05] That are saving enormous
Speaker2: [01:12:07] Numbers of lives
Speaker3: [01:12:08] Using very inexpensive off, largely off patent drugs. You know, the pharmacy Pfizer can’t make a big profit on those, and neither can Merck,
Speaker1: [01:12:17] But will encourage our viewers to watch this. We put the link below so they can watch the conference live in a recorded conference.
Speaker3: [01:12:27] Apparently, there are over 100 million views already on the streaming for this for this meeting. So in any case, what I encourage the
Speaker2: [01:12:37] Cardinal to consider was that
Speaker3: [01:12:41] The church could modify
Speaker2: [01:12:43] Its position a little bit,
Speaker3: [01:12:44] Not be
Speaker2: [01:12:46] Anti-vaccine,
Speaker3: [01:12:47] But be pro vaccine equity in and advocate for more
Speaker2: [01:12:54] Global access to vaccines for those that need it most. We don’t have enough vaccine to saturate
Speaker3: [01:13:00] Everybody and as bad science to do so, make advocate and endorse the
Speaker2: [01:13:06] Idea of early treatment interventions so that those that do get infected that haven’t accepted vaccine are
Speaker3: [01:13:14] Are poor or their risk of hospitalization and death. They’re already small. Risk is further
Speaker2: [01:13:21] Reduced by early intervention,
Speaker3: [01:13:24] Which is for some paradoxical
Speaker2: [01:13:26] Reason prohibited in many countries.
Speaker3: [01:13:28] And on that, we also make available tools so that people can self assess whether or not they have been infected with this virus as opposed to respiratory syncytial virus or influenza or rhino, or we can go on and on. Right. And so they can call their doctors and say up. Eight I did the home test. It shows that I’m virus positive. What do we do now? And then the doctor can
Speaker2: [01:13:52] Take them under treatment like the hypocrisy group has done through
Speaker3: [01:13:58] An amazing volunteerism. I mean, if anybody deserves a Nobel Prize in this environment, as far as I’m concerned, it’s it’s groups like a soccer team who are working selflessly to save lives. And we can argue the scientists among themselves about who discovered this, that or the other thing. But just like the MSF award, the heroes, I think, are these these groups of physicians and physician leaders that have pioneered these early interventions that are saving so many lives. Then then I think that we people need to have
Speaker2: [01:14:33] Access to early
Speaker3: [01:14:34] Diagnostics, and there are tools that can be put onto your
Speaker2: [01:14:38] Ipad or your
Speaker3: [01:14:41] Cell phone that would allow you to put in your own information and get back a calculated information
Speaker2: [01:14:48] About what their true risk is with their own medical history. I don’t advocate that that data goes to a
Speaker3: [01:14:54] Central database, right? Because that could be exploited. But I think that that allowing people to have tools to a self, assess
Speaker2: [01:15:03] Their own risk and make their own decision about whether or not to take vaccine
Speaker3: [01:15:07] Is is a key part of this logic in and where that comes from is is my personal
Speaker2: [01:15:15] Strong belief that has run
Speaker3: [01:15:18] Through this whole thread is the rights of the individual
Speaker2: [01:15:23] To control their own body. Mm-hmm.
Speaker3: [01:15:25] And I believe strongly that we must
Speaker2: [01:15:29] Respect the rights of the individual to elect to willingly accept a medical procedure or not. This has to be fundamental.
Speaker3: [01:15:40] This is what
Speaker2: [01:15:41] I most object to now.
Speaker3: [01:15:43] And when I when I started on this journey, I thought that this would
Speaker2: [01:15:48] Be a discussion about bioethics.
Speaker3: [01:15:50] Mm hmm. Then it became a
Speaker2: [01:15:52] Discussion about the vaccine technology and the adverse events and these kind of small things.
Speaker3: [01:15:58] And what it’s turned into is
Speaker2: [01:16:00] A discussion
Speaker3: [01:16:01] About fundamental morality, freedom for the individual and the power of these global organizations to control information and to suppress dissent. And I’m this, you know, this has been a personal journey for me, and I think for all of us, perhaps for you also is is we’ve become aware of of the the power of these, this new media and this integrated global media to control our very ability to think by controlling the information
Speaker2: [01:16:38] That we have access to.
Speaker3: [01:16:39] And that, I think is is the transcendent issue that cuts across all of this in. And I, I I would I hope I’m. Actively seeking the one. Global moral authority
Speaker2: [01:17:00] That I’m aware of. That being
Speaker3: [01:17:03] The Catholic Church becoming engaged in providing moral leadership
Speaker2: [01:17:10] Globally
Speaker3: [01:17:11] And and making it clear that these ideas of equity and integrity of self
Speaker2: [01:17:21] Are are fundamental and that it’s not OK
Speaker3: [01:17:25] To manipulate information
Speaker2: [01:17:27] And people in these ways. And so I hope that that this perspective that I was, I hope that I was effective in communicating these ideas to the cardinal and that the cardinal might be
Speaker3: [01:17:44] Effective in sharing this point of view with church leadership because I think we desperately need
Speaker2: [01:17:52] Moral leadership in this time, and we
Speaker3: [01:17:57] Don’t seem to have any global unifying body that can provide that other than than the church. And so this is why I I’ve disrupted my schedule.
Speaker2: [01:18:10] I’ve so passionately sought out an opportunity.
Speaker3: [01:18:13] I’m not a member
Speaker2: [01:18:15] Of the of the Catholic community. That’s not been
Speaker3: [01:18:18] My world, but I very much respect
Speaker2: [01:18:22] And appreciate the advocacy by members of that community, including yourself,
Speaker3: [01:18:27] To try to help me to share this alternative point of view. And and I’m from the private conversations that the Cardinal shared with me and some of his own observations, having to do with experiences
Speaker2: [01:18:42] Concerning some
Speaker3: [01:18:46] More naturopathic remedies that he’s aware of in his own country that have been
Speaker2: [01:18:53] Developed that are quite potent. And he shared some examples of that.
Speaker3: [01:18:59] He he he he seemed to be indicating to me that he appreciated the logic that there are early interventions that are not the approved, patented pharmaceutical marketed products that that,
Speaker2: [01:19:18] You know, we’re generating so much revenue for these large pharmaceutical companies.
Speaker3: [01:19:21] There are many paths
Speaker2: [01:19:23] To protecting people and and I shared with him that I
Speaker3: [01:19:28] Firmly believe and as is shown in this conference, there are many agents, largely
Speaker2: [01:19:35] Anti-inflammatories
Speaker3: [01:19:37] In including traditional medicines such as the Chinese use. The Chinese have two approaches for treating COVID. One is more traditional pharmaceutical. One is based on more traditional Chinese medicine.
Speaker2: [01:19:50] Both are effective
Speaker1: [01:19:51] And so in India, as a state experimented with a year, whether the ancient Indian medicine rooted in the way those and that was so successful that people from other states were coming in and getting the COVID medicine. So there are naturopathic Chinese Indian medicines out there. I know, and your conference has dealt with the Western medicines out there as well.
Speaker3: [01:20:15] So, so I think that the data show.
Speaker2: [01:20:20] That we don’t have to fear this. We’ve been taught fear, the fear has just been relentlessly promoted.
Speaker3: [01:20:30] Why?
Speaker2: [01:20:31] I, you know, we can speculate. And it’s not. It’s above me that clearly there there are large forces at work,
Speaker3: [01:20:40] And I think there are large forces that
Speaker2: [01:20:42] Have seen this as an opportunity to advance their own initiatives and interests.
Speaker3: [01:20:46] They may not have started off thinking that way. But they are behaving in ways
Speaker2: [01:20:51] That suggest that they are perceiving an
Speaker3: [01:20:53] Opportunity. But. But I think that I’m confident.
Speaker2: [01:21:01] That the cardinal recognizes that vaccines are not the only solution. And from his casual comments in in I, I
Speaker3: [01:21:13] Just, you know, in speaking
Speaker2: [01:21:15] With you and speaking through this medium, I’m very grateful that to have had his respect and his attention in and I deeply respect his comments and I listen to them very, very carefully and I was received with respect and he listened to me very, very carefully. So for those that have asked that I serve as an emissary in this, I’m confident that the information and the message was heard
Speaker3: [01:21:53] In terms of what their action items are going to be. This is beyond me. I have no idea, but but I feel like I fulfilled my mission
Speaker2: [01:22:03] Here in and I’m very grateful for the advocacy of particularly the U.S. Catholic community as well as yourself in supporting this attempt to reach out to the church in its role as as a moral and ideological leader in the world in this. Incredible times.
Speaker1: [01:22:32] And may I, on behalf of our viewers, say provisional, you have been a voice in the wilderness. You’ve been a prophetic voice, a light in these dark times. The Bible tells us you spoke of fear and the Bible tells us three hundred and sixty five times. Fear not. And I think as we stand up to the tyranny of these times or the looming tyranny of your words to us are going to be not only a source of massive information, a goldmine of information, but also looking at your own example, I think a real inspiration. So thank you so much, Dr. Robert Malone, for giving us your very valuable time and for appearing on church holidays. And we are immensely grateful to you. Thank you. Thank you. God bless you. Thanks to
Speaker2: [01:23:24] You.